Formations Lecture

P'ter talks about the V formation with Rey, J'nas and Jenna.

Jenna - Wednesday, May 22, 2002, 1:26 PM
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Your location's current time: 13:46 on day 16, month 5, Turn 40, of the Tenth Pass. It is a spring afternoon.

P'ter bites into his sandwich, "Hmm, not bad. Beats popped herdbeast anyday of the sevenday."

P'ter swallows, then in three more bites he finishes the food, draining the mug of water that he had taken. "So, did I hear you say something about a Formations Lecture?" he asks Jenna.

J'nas comes in from the bowl.
J'nas has arrived.

Jenna snickers softly at P'ter. She hasn't made a move to get lunch herself, though she plants elbows on the table, poking a toe at her boots on the floor. "Hm? Oh, yessir. Just after lunch." She glances around at the caverns and chews on her lower lip. "Is it time for it already?"

P'ter spies J'nas come in, "Ah J'nas, have you had your formation's lecture yet?"

P'ter shrugs, "It might as well be, the candle is about half way. No time like the present. Grab something to eat and we can get started if you like."

J'nas is halfway to the serving table when P'ter addresses him. He faces the Weyrleader and salutes. "No sir, I haven't. Are we doing that now, sir?"

Sidanna hmms and sighs a little "Are the lectures fun?"

P'ter salutes J'nas, "Seems like it. Grab a bun or something and I'll take you through it."

Jenna leans and murmurs to Sidanna, "Depends on what it's on. And who's giving 'em - sometimes they're awful boring. Kinda like harper lessons."

Sidanna grimaces "That's too bad."

P'ter looks around, "Want me to give it here?" He shrugs, "I don't mind."

J'nas grabs a couple of buns and a handful of meatrolls and heads toward the table. He looks around the cavern, "Seems as good a place as any."

Jenna nods, "If that's best for you, sir."

Makai grins. "I've heard from a few young Harpers who are aweful glad to be having Harper Lessons, that its not as boring as it sounds, just depends on the teacher..." he chuckles.

Sidanna starts "I think I need to go do...a thing." Anything to avoid lessons of any sort

Sidanna slips awa'...
Sidanna heads into the tunnel to the south, vanishing into the mountain's depths.
Sidanna has left.

P'ter grabs a chair, twisting it so that he can sit astride it. Then he frowns, pulls it up to the table and sits again, clearing a large area of table away as he does so. "Now, lets see. I think the best thing we can do is to review the 'V' formation, its our most commonly used formation, its the one you will spend most of your time in."

Makai gets up and bows. "I would love to listen, but right now I have an, uh, message to deliver," thankful for that honest excuse he heads out the door.

Jenna nods after Sidanna, and then leans forward, cradling chin in her palm and listening intently to P'ter. She tucks the damp towel more securely around herself.

R'yat comes in from the bowl.
R'yat has arrived.

J'nas takes a seat and munches on bread roll while waiting for P'ter to continue.

P'ter snorts, "Best way to get a seat in here is to give a lecture, suddenly you have room." He sees R'yat come in, waves him over, "R'yat, formations lecture, right now."

R'yat emerges then perks at the Weyrleader's words. He straightens, salutes and finds a place near J'nas and Jenna giving Nananthia a smile in the process.

Jenna grins a bit, and nudges her chair over a bit to give the brown and bronzeriders some room. Then she looks back to P'ter, chewing on her lower lip.

Nananthia chuckles at that statment as she watches the weyrlings enter, wiggling her fingers at R'yat before standing to grab some more cider. "Did you need me to leave?" she asks.

P'ter says "Now as I was saying, the most used formation, particularly for weyrlings, is the standard 'V' formation. Actually 'standard' is something of a misnomer because there are so many variations on this formation that I'm not sure there is even a standard left. But you will learn the standard, so that is what I will talk about, and actually is it a formation that I use quite often. Oh, and stop me with a question whenever you like." He grins to Nananthia, "Not at all, not at all. This is a public place, I should really be doing this in the Barracks but am too lazy to walk." He grins."

P'ter grabs the salt, placing it on the table, "Now then, imagine that that is me." He hmms, "Pass me some stuff will you? Red fruits, some of those nuts? A few glasses? Want to mark this out for you."

Jenna flashes a quick grin at Nananthia bit doesn't interrupt. Another couple of weyrlings, greenriders from the look of them, gather round the table as well, listening intently.

R'yat quickly smiles and winks at Jenna as he sits down but his attention is dragged on P'ter as he speaks.

Jenna looks around for something. She dithers for a moment, and then snags Sidanna's abandoned juice mug, nudging it over towards P'ter.

P'ter starts to arrange items on the table, taking the mug from Jenna and placing it as a wingsecond. Quickly he lays out a 'V' shape, the wingleader or weyrleader at the head. "Now take it that this was my wing for example. This is me." He taps the salt celler. "You can see that everything follows behind in a twin armed V, like a flock of migratory birds, the two wingseconds are here, directly behind me. Behind those and a little further out we have the other bronzes in the wing, then as we go backwards we work thought he colors, the browns, blues and greens. The greens as you can see are at the back, about one third of the wings total number of greens at any one time are actually in the formation. - Questions yet?

J'nas raises a breadroll, "Is there any particular reason that the formation is in order of descending size?"

Jenna glances around and then nods to J'nas, shutting her mouth back and sitting back in her chair.

P'ter nods, "Yes, good question."

P'ter says "Thread fighting in such a way so that You can see that this way the bigger dragons are in the front, they have a wider sweep of flame, can sear more thread but are not as maneuverable. The further back you go the smaller the thread clumps that are left, are, and the more maneuverable the dragons are so as to aid in catching those threads. So the bronzes and browns act as the main destroyer force while the blues and greens are sweepers, cleaning up the thread the the large dragons are just not able to catch."

R'yat frowns a little, obviously trying to picture the formation in his head. He was about to raise a hand but as P'ter continues to speak he lowers it and listens.

J'nas nods thoughtfully, taking another bite from his breadroll.

P'ter says "Now this set up is not perfect, there are some flaws, and I would be interested if you could spot one or two of them. So, comments and questions on this formation?""

R'yat nods then finally raises one hand.

P'ter says "R'yat?"

Jenna chews thoughtfully on her lower lip, eyes narrowing slightly. She doesn't ask, instead looking aside to Rey.

R'yat clears his throat, coughs and asks. "If bigger dragons are placed on th efront of this formation, I assume that it is also to cut strong winds? I mean if less thread goes through, it'll be safer if there will be no wind whirl?

Jenna nods slightly, murmuring quietly, "Wouldn't it also depend on which way the winds were blowing? Tailwinds, and you're not headed into it... Makes the smaller dragons work harder and switch out faster?"

P'ter wobbles a hand, "Yes and no. I mean, large dragons they might be, but when you fly threadfall in bad conditions you'll see that it really has a very little, if no effect at all on the wind conditions of the dragon's behind. One reason for this is that the father back you go the lower the dragon's fly, this formation slopes down towards the back, so that as the thread falls there is always a dragon at the thread's hight, they don't have to drop to chase it. That way the smaller dragons are somewhat protected from thread raining down on them from above, they can concentrate more on attack a front. Doesn't always work of course, but there you go."

P'ter nods to Jenna, "Normally yes, but as thread tends to fall with the prevailing winds the whole wing aligns itself into the wind, so tail winds are very rarely a problem and then only in gusty conditions."

Jenna grunts faintly, going back to chewing on her lip and looking for flaws with the formation. "So... um..." She leans to whisper to Rey, "So what are the flaws?"

P'ter grins, "Want some answers?"

R'yat is also in his thoughts as he bends to one side to answer Jenna. "I don't really know...Side gusts?" He perks again and nods to P'ter.

Jenna nods to P'ter, as she shrugs at R'yat.

P'ter says "Its okay, this is not a test, I just want you to learn this is all." He pokes the salt celler, "Look at this, the wingleader. "What can he see?""

Jenna ohs! "Nothing easily. The others are behind and below him."

R'yat ooohs a little. "Well except from what he has in front of him, nothing. Jenna's right."

P'ter nods, "That's right. He can see thread a plenty, but he can't see the wing. He has to keep looking back over one shoulder of the other, and this can be a problem. Also its hard for him to give commands. - Now you will find that wingleaders that opt for this postion will often give commands via handsignals, as everyone can see him even if he can't see them. I tend to use Aisheth a lot to give commands too, direct to your dragons, but that's a personal preverance, others don't do this."

Jenna nods slowly, chin planting once more firmly into her palm as she listens.

P'ter says "Here is another problem, look at this. If thread goes through here." He points between the wingleader and the wingsecond, "look what happens to it, it drifts back here." He brings his hand backwards into the empty space between two sides of the V. There is nothing here, there is no dragon to clean this up."

"Will one pair have to break the formation to go chase it?" R'yat asks nervously.

Jenna opens her mouth to say something, and then shuts it. She sits up a bit, making V shapes with each hand, and overlapping them, one atop the other, perhaps working something out. One branch of the V sticks between the two of the lower one, and she squints at it speculatively.

P'ter shakes his head, "No, breaking the formation is not a good idea, it can get another wingrider killed or injured, ditto for another dragon." He grins at Jenna, "Yep, that is one way. Often we nest two V's, a large V and a smaller V within the first V. But that is one of those variations I mentioned back at the start. Sometimes we put a group of three in here. Three greens, or a blue and two greens, that seems to work quite well."

Jenna ohs and then asks, a trifle timidly, So, would a flight like that work with them strung out next to each other, like to cover all the thread path? With just the queen's wing underneath? Or are they usually stacked like I was thinking?"

R'yat moves his gaze from Jenna's hands to P'ter's face. "But that way, the formation has to be quite wide, no?" His eyes widens and he shuts up as Jenna speaks.

P'ter says "They are normally stacked, one wing under another. Why is this? - Various reasons. One of which is that at some points there are places that need to be protected just that much more carefully, cotholds for example, three layers of protection there can save huge crop loads from being damaged. Also it would be too dangerous to place the queens in such a position as to have only one level of cover over them. You would end up with many more queens scored, and that, is I'm sure something none of us want. And even if you were to use the queens as the only other layer, /they/ can only cover so much ground, if you spread all the dragons out above on the same level, they would cover more airspace than the queens could cover lower down."

P'ter says "And again, if all the dragons were at the same level they would have to fight the leading edge all the time, and they would tire, and there would be more injuries. This way you can change the levels, they can take turns at the leading edge, it helps them to be able to cope with longer falls if they are not at the leading edge all the time."

Jenna nods slowly, looking a trifle more satisfied. She blinks, something P'ter said ringing in apparently, for she settles back in with chin into palm.

R'yat rubs his chin and keeps nodding.

Jenna murmurs to Rey in an undertone, "I hadn't thought about battling leading edge all the while making them tired."

One of the assistant stewards comes up and clears his throat at P'ter's side. P'ter looks up and blinks. Something is whispered in his ear and his eyes go wide. "What now?" A nod is given in reply and P'ter sighs. "Ah well, I'm needed I'm afraid. I'll tell you more about formations over the next few days."

Jenna nods, "Thank you sir." Her eyes remain on the formation on the table, brow furrowing slightly.

R'yat lifts an eyebrow at Jenna, then nods and smiles to P'ter. "Thank you."

P'ter heads out the cavernous entrance to the bowl.
P'ter has left.

Jenna says to Rey, "What? I guess I just thought of, when they were always talking about 'leading edge' for it to be a vertical thing, not a horizontal one. S'what we always kinda thought it was in ground crew. But it makes much more sense when you think of it that way."

R'yat continues to rub his chin. "But if the winds are blowing hard, it can be both horizontal and vertical." He makes a pause then frows a bit. "A threat in almost every direction."

Jenna asks him with a touch of amusement, "So how would you arrange the wing, if you were the wingleader?"

R'yat's left eye raises again. "Huh? What, me?" He returns Jenna her smile then look at the ceiling, picturing the scene mentally. "Well, I'm not used to fight thread at all but I assume that breaking the Wing in three different level and not directly one above the other, it could cover larger part of the sky." He pauses to llok back at her. "What d'you think?"

Jenna adds, "Four. Four different ones. Don't forget the queen's wing. A Flight's the smallest number that can make a Fall, right? Three wings and us? Have to be a narrow band. Or maybe one that's half over water, like down at Boll?" She turns one hand upside down, pointing at the thumb and saying, "If this is the Boll tip, and we're right at the joint of the thumb, the bands cover over here, here, and here." She touches various spots on her hand. "One thing I do know, and that's the charts for Fall. So, if you flew this one here, you could get away with only a flight. But we've got, how many wings? Twenty, didn't the Weyrwoman say?"

R'yat shrugs lightly. "Don't really know, but I was trying to think as a wingleader so I said three different level for my own wing...Well if I can say so, of course." He grins.

Jenna grins a bit in return. "I'm thinking about a full flight. Wonder how many Fort usually puts up for most Falls? -- Seems to me like the V formation should work well enough. What if you just did a single line though? Stagger it like so:" she demonstrates, with her fingers, each index finger moved a bit infront/behind the other. "And even stagger riders between others. Sort of like threshing a field? I dunno. I've still got to get used to Fall being horizontal instead of vertical, you know?"

R'yat humms a bit. "That's the different between us, Jenna." And he smiles wide. "I still can't see the thing in its whole." He shrugs. "I'd better use V formations..."

Jenna muses, "Wonder how many there are?"

R'yat seems deeply lost in his thoughts but after a quite short moment he perks and looks at Jenna. "My father once told me that a Weyr could host five hundred dragons as a full capacity. If a wing can be composed of thirteen to thirty beats..." He frowns and mutters. "I'd say aproximatvely twenty wings? I don't know...

Jenna grins a bit and teases R'yat, "I was thinking about formations, not wings, but... What's Randoth up to today? Niyath's sunning on the star stones."

R'yat lightly chuckles. "Aaaaah, formations..." He grins. "Oh, Rand? I left him near the feeding ground."

Jenna snickers softly, "The Weyrleader looked like he was about the throttle Aisheth when I told him Niyath's trying to get the others hooked on wherry-popping."

R'yat laughs. "I somewhat heard that Aisheth likes to play with his food, yes. Does Niyath imitates him?"

Jenna mms. "Kinda. He does it with herdbeasts, she does it with wherries. She seems to like the taste. Me, not so much." She wrinkles her nose.

Jenna gives a quizzical sound as one of the residents comes in, saying that she's needed. She gets up, "See you later, Rey," and follows out dutifully, trying to worm some information out of the lad.